Dr. Clark’s guest appearance on Dr. Jo Anne White’s radio program, Power Your Life. Dr. Clark and Dr. White discuss the critical role of the digestive system in your health.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Power Your Life radio show with host and Professor Jo Anne White, author, speaker, and certified coach, Dr. White gets to the heart of what matters most. She features guests and experts to help you consciously create more success health and well-being in every area of your life work and relationship. They’ll share their success stories with them and know how to shine more light onto your day and into your life. Power your life right now, here’s Jo Anne White
Jo Anne: Hello everyone and thanks for tuning in to the Power Your Life show and our calling number is 805-285-9790. Many of you think about your health but you don’t really take a look at what your digestive system is doing and how important your digestive system is to every aspect of your health and also what impacts that like stress. We’re going to talk about that today. One of the reasons that this is so very important to me is because a while ago, I had a lot of digestive issues and had a lot of tests done and had to do a lot of my own research to figure out, “Okay, what’s causing this? What do I need to do to be healthy and function at my optimal level? What’s out there and what’s available?”
Today, we’re going to look at some of what’s available. We have an expert who, I am happy to say, is here to do that with us and that’s Dr. Heather Clark. She’s going to help us really look at the whole relationship between digestive system and having good health maintaining it as well. Dr. Heather Clark is a licensed clinical pharmacist in both Kansas and Missouri. She’s also a certified functional medicine specialist and adrenal fatigue expert with over 15 years of clinical experience. Dr. Clark is also the CEO and founder of Vibrant.
She treats individuals and creates innovative group programs and educate not only about the causes and treatment of adrenal fatigue and what the stress symptoms do to your health but also the real cause to business and individuals when these issues remain untreated. Without further adieu … and she also has incredible teaching credits as an Adjunct Professor at the University of Missouri-Kansas City, College of Pharmacy and has also been on eHealthRadio.com, we want to welcome you Dr. Clark. Thanks for taking your time out of your busy schedule to shed some light on this serious matter that’s affecting a lot of people in the United States and all over the world.
Dr. Clark: Thank you for having me. I’m delighted to be here.
Dr. White: Great. Let’s just look at this for a minute because firstly, how do people even know that they’re experiencing digestive problems? As you take a look at, at some commercials and they say, “Oh, okay, before you eat that hotdog or chilly that’s so burning hot whatever just pop some an acid pill or some other pills so that your body doesn’t feel these symptoms of it,” but I’m not sure that’s the right way for many of us to proceed. What do you think?
Dr. Clark: I completely agree. There’s a lot of different ways that you can tell if you have a digestive issue. One way would be if you have symptoms that made you want to pop an acid after you ate something that’s not a normal reaction of the body. Interestingly enough from the functional medicine approach, using an acid is actually detrimental. A lot of times you want to get your stomach more acidic so that you can absorb the food and digest it.
Dr. White: I’m so glad you said that. I just want to go back to that because a lot of doctors recommend that basically what you do is you decrease the acidity that’s going on and some of the medicine that they recommend is designed to do just that but you’re coming from a whole different approach.
Dr. Clark: Yes, I’m coming from a whole different approach. It took me some time to get here because my training is traditional. When I was in school it’s, “Oh, you have a problem, here take Tums. Oh, you have a problem, here take Prilosec,” something like that, but as my journey into functional medicine has continued, I have a different opinion now because medications like that work against the body. Don’t get me wrong. There’s an important role for medications. Medications are important technology. It’s my opinion that they’re overuse. I’m on a little bit of a mission to educate the world about it.
Dr. White: I’m glad you are because I tend to agree. I have about 90 tablets of Prilosec, Prozac whatever it is that is sitting in my medicine cabinet as we speak, because I virtually decided I’m not going that route, thank you very much. Can you define functional medicine for our listeners, because I think that’s key to the whole system that you’re going to be talking about today.
Dr. Clark: Functional medicine is easier to explain if I use an analogy. If you picture a tree, traditional medicine, the type of medicine that we normally think of, is the branches and the leaves. Traditional medicine is more, in general, concerned with symptoms and outcomes of problems, [the ologies 00:06:23]. Functional medicine is the trunk and the root. Functional medicine is concerned with why is this problem happening? What is the imbalance that is leading to this? Are there lifestyle changes? There’s a whole different side of things that functional medicine looks at so for instance taking a digestive issue like indigestion.
The typical traditional medicine approach is you have indigestion that’s a symptom, let’s treat that symptom with something that blocks acid. From the functional medicine perspective, I want to know, “Okay, you have indigestion, why? Why you have indigestion? What are you eating? What have you been eating? Do you have a hidden infection? Are you producing enough enzymes? Is your stomach acidic enough?” It’s a whole different way of looking at things. My favorite part about it is it gets to the very root of the problem. You often, with the functional medicine approach, you’re not treating things chronically. You’re treating it and fixing the problem.
Dr. White: I love that because like I said I just think that that many of us who have experienced challenges and often times as you say in your book and we’re talking about … we’re going to talk about your book later but we’re talking about an incredible book that I actually been looking at. It’s about … I mean stress can be a strong indicator of some of the digestive problems that we have. I know for somebody like me who is go, go, go all the time, a lot of that that way that I have to my life has probably caused some of those symptoms.
Dr. Clark: Yes, in fact stress is often the underlying problem with many conditions especially digestive. There’s lot of different types of stress. The stress that you’re talking about, stress from food sensitivities, stress from hidden infection, all kinds of different stresses, but what stress does is it creates problems in the body and then those problems create more stress. It’s a self-perpetuating cycle.
Dr. White: Dr. Clark, from a functional medicine approach, how do you differentiate, how do you know when you’re working with patients when whether it’s caused by some lifestyle, whether it’s caused by some infection or something? How do you get to the root like you say of the problems so that you can weed out everything else and really be able to assist person on their way to good health?
Dr. Clark: From the functional medicine approach, it isn’t a seven-minute appointment. Often your first appointment with a functional medicine specialist is roughly 90 minutes. In that time you can really dig down and find out what’s going on. What’s going on now? What’s happened in the past? It’s a complete medical history, but it’s also looking for the [inaudible 00:09:48] with antecedents and some triggers. What that boils down to is what in your life has set you up for this problem? Then what triggered this problem? Usually with a really long conversation, you get a pretty good idea of what’s probably going on, but then from there, there are different tests that can be run.
For example if somebody had some very clear digestive symptoms like let’s say irritable bowel, where it alternates between constipation and diarrhea. The quickest way to get to the root of that is to check for food sensitivities and then if we don’t find any, then we would do testing for a hidden digestive infection. Interestingly, you can actually have a digestive problem that doesn’t have digestive symptoms. Sometimes depression …
Dr. White: You mean somebody could be walking around and have digestive problems and not be aware of it, is that what you’re saying?
Dr. Clark: That’s one thing and not be aware of it. Sometimes depression, the underlying cause is a digestive issue.
Dr. White: Wow.
Dr. Clark: Sometimes allergies, sometimes rashes. If you have a rash or eczema, not everybody would put that together with a digestive problem, but often times the digestive problem is the underlying issue. Instead of using all these creams and all these pills in treating symptoms, you can actually make it go away.
Dr. White: What led you because you have a very different background and you said it took some time to get here and I’m so glad that there’s someone like you here that’s doing that because I think it’s so very, very important these days, but what led you to shift and to do what you’re doing today in terms of more functional medicine?
Dr. Clark: What happened was I got sick. It seemed to happen overnight but really it came on over the course of several weeks where I became more and more tired and not, “Oh, I didn’t sleep that well last night, kind of tired.” The kind of tired where I was sleeping through my lunch break, where I was too tired to fix dinner, I was too tired to do pretty much anything I love and that’s no way to live. I went to several different physicians. I had several increasingly more exotic tests and the answer always came back, “I don’t know, looks like your fine,” like I am not fine.
Finally, I found a functional medicine specialist who listened to the story and said, “Oh, you have adrenal fatigue.” I will never forget it. I smiled and I looked at her and said, “I have been to school for a lot of years. I have never heard of adrenal fatigue.” I’m sick and skeptical. She explains it from a physiological standpoint that makes perfect sense to me. During my recovery, kind of how I [rolled is 00:13:14] needed to know everything about it. On my journey to recovery, I did lots of additional research. I’ve got an additional training to become a certified functional medicine specialist. It’s the thing once I learned about it I’m like, “Where has this been all my life?”
Dr. White: I think it’s so important because as you’ve been talking about it and as I’ve been reading your book, your co-authored book, and really looking at it, I was thinking the same thing. Where have you been and how come I’ve never heard of this before because it could have warded off a lot and prevented a lot of headaches, a lot of financial stress, and a lot of not knowing the answers, and getting medicine that just did not even agree with me because my body is so sensitive to medication. I’m still creating … for me and I know many people like me who kind of moving away from some of the traditional stuff so I created my own prescription which is not letter perfect by any means but it’s better than what I was offered so to speak.
I want to get back to something that you said because you’ve been talking about adrenal function and adrenal dysfunction. How does digestion is at all fit into that mix?
Dr. Clark: It is tightly linked. In that shell, adrenal dysfunction or adrenal fatigue or burnout or whatever you’d like to call it that is a result of chronic stress. Here’s the trick. Like I said stress creates more stress. You have stress for many thing, job, work, food anything. What that does is that increases inflammation in the body. One of the things that that leads to is decrease absorption in the digestive system. You’re not getting the nutrients you need. That then in turn decreases immunity. Our immune system is not really responding the way it needs to and then you’re at increased risk for infection. Whether that’s a cold, whether that’s a bacterial infection, it’s commonly a hidden digestive infection.
Because of the stress, your body has more damage and it’s not repairing itself. It usually shows up in the digestive system if not first, it’s one of the first few things that happen because the cells turn over so rapidly there. They are tightly linked. I would say probably 85% of my clients with adrenal fatigue also have some digestive issues.
Dr. White: Foods can actually cause chronic stress, can you explain that a little bit because I’m actually seeing … I obviously can’t see, but I’m seeing my listeners faces puzzled because they are saying, “How can food, how can this great sandwiches or whatever I’m eating, how could it cause chronic stress?” Would you answer that? I want to tell folks we’re talking to Dr. Heather Clark. We’re talking about your digestive system and your health and how they are related and more. The number is 805-285-9790.
Dr. Clark: You can actually create trouble in several different ways, but the most common ways are if you’re eating junk food that’s hard on your body. This is not news to anybody. When you’re eating empty calories, the extra sugar, that is a stress in itself and that triggers inflammation and then that whole cycle begins. Eating junk food isn’t good for you, big surprise. What is surprise is that sometimes you’re eating foods that are otherwise healthy but just not for you. Perhaps you’ve got food sensitivities, not allergies but food sensitivity that’s mediated a whole different way in the immune system.
Really the most common food sensitivity is gluten and then it’s followed up by dairy, soy, fructose. You can be sensitive to all types of different things. Those are just the most common. If you eat something you’re sensitive to, that creates damage, it triggers this whole cascade in the body creating more stress, creating more damage and then the cycle continues.
Dr. White: Let me ask you this because many of the tests that doctors perform are test to check for allergies so if you’re allergic like you said to gluten or if you’re allergic to sugar or to dairy products, but do they also give you information about food sensitivities or it’s just about allergies?
Dr. Clark: A lot of times especially when you’re in the traditional model, sensitivities aren’t widely recognized. Let’s take gluten as an example. If you’re suspected to have a problem with gluten, in the traditional model often they’ll take a history if your symptoms indicate it then pretty much the diagnosis for them is a diagnosis of celiac disease, which requires a colonoscopy, a biopsy, and pathology. If you’re not celiac then as far as traditional medicine is concerned, you’re fine, but from a functional medicine perspective, yes celiac is a big deal, it’s a problem with gluten but it’s way at the end of the spectrum.
There’s a whole great area in the middle of sensitivity to gluten where you’ll have anywhere from constipation to again the rashes and the eczema that we talked about. What’s interesting is a lot of times when people stop eating gluten their anxiety goes away. Those are all sensitivities. There are some tests that you can do to see if you have food sensitivities but actually the faster and the cheaper way is to just go on an elimination diet.
Dr. White: An elimination diet that means just not do not … like I’m not going to eat gluten for an extra amount of day whatever and see how I feel, right?
Dr. Clark: Yeah and that’s what I do for my clients because I found it’s actually more effective than the testing because there are some challenges with food sensitivity testing.
Dr. White: Some of them aren’t accurate or still have some grey area?
Dr. Clark: Some of them have some grey area and some of them are less accurate than I would like. That’s real complicated and there’s a whole lot that goes into it but the short version is it’s often with food sensitivities it’s testing for a particular reaction to a particular protein. For gluten, it’s testing part of the gluten molecule so if you have a certain reaction to that part of the gluten molecule it will turn out positive, anything else is negative but you might still have a gluten sensitivity because you’re sensitive to a different part of the molecule or you have a different reaction, it’s like a cyst. It can get quite complicated but the bottom line is food sensitivity testing is not the do all and end all.
Dr. White: I think it’s important and for me I’m just using myself as a guinea pig here, what I did was I just went on … I decided, “Okay, I don’t believe everything I’m hearing,” that’s who I am and I decided to take my health which is I think is important into my own hands. I went off of gluten and I went off of dairy products. [Within those parts 00:18:15] that was the hardest for me. I started to feel incredibly better even in a short period of time. It’s not perfect but it really helped get my health back. I’m also concerned because I think and I had somebody on the show Dr. Clark who was talking about GMOs and what’s happening with our food that is actually being genetically engineered.
I think that seems a lot of the grains are being genetically engineered like wheat whatever. I think that that’s causing a lot more sensitivity and may be even allergies to gluten than anybody has anticipated because I think in this country, I don’t know the statistics, but there’s so much more people who seemed to be gluten sensitive.
Dr. Clark: We agree with you absolutely. Gluten sensitivity and wheat sensitivity is higher than it’s ever been and [in part 00:23:03] for a lot of the reasons that you mentioned, for food sensitivities there’s a whole bunch of different ways a person can be sensitive, but when you’re talking about genetically modified, when you’re talking about different pesticides that is … especially the pesticides that is a direct toxic effect to the body. You’re getting a direct food sensitivity in the digestive system. Then as your body tries to clear it, it goes through your detox system and overwhelms that. I was just going to say this is part of that vicious cycle of when you’ve overwhelmed your detox system that creates more stress in your body which increases inflammation, which increases allergies, which increases all this other problems, create stress and then the cycle continues.
Dr. White: Two things, people who say, “Oh, it’s because,” … I’m in south jersey a lot of the allergy system is very high right now. A lot of people are saying, Oh, it’s because of everything that’s in the air,” but what they may not know is it’s because of something that’s going on within them like you’re talking about that’s creating those allergies. Just as on a side, I was taking a walk and somebody who was mowing his lawn and putting all this chemical pesticides whatever in his lawn to beautify it I said, “Oh, we’re sprinkling some poison, are we?” as a joke but …
He said, “No, we’re just getting the lawn to look better.” I’m thinking why aren’t we taking some responsibility here and making those choices because … I mean there’s a whole chain of reactions from this, the foods, the animals, the … it just goes on and on and on in the environment and then ultimately the water that we’re drinking and all that, but we’re not taking that first step like, why am I choosing to make my lawn beautiful with this horrific pesticide that’s going to cause who knows what damage and who knows how long and how far that’s going to extend into not only our lawn but our future? I’m talking about that collectively.
Dr. Clark: I agree and really the first step for wellness in general is taking responsibility. Responsibility for your actions which you put on your lawn, how you live your life but also like you did on your journey to recovery, you took responsibility for your own health. My guess is that’s when you started to turn the corner and that part of the functional medicine approach is when I see clients I’m not telling them do this, that and everything. I’m telling them, “Okay, this, that and the other thing are often effective and here’s why,” but I’m more of the adviser. I’m more of the coach if you will, guiding them along their journey but it’s their journey. If they take responsibility for it and take that journey, see fantastic outcomes.
Dr. White: Let’s help people because we’ve been talking about all the challenges. I want people to come away from this show thinking, “Okay, yes, I can be responsible and yes there’s help out there because there are people like Dr. Heather Clark who is practicing … who are practicing functional medicine and who are here to help me along to figure it out together as a team.” What can people do to … you talked about just try going off with certain things, but what can people do to take more responsibility for their health in advance of actually having to come to you so that we can be a little bit proactive? Not that they shouldn’t come to you because I want them to come to you too but to help people take charge of their health better. What are some of the things that you can recommend for them?
Dr. Clark: It boils down to three things and that’s eat, leap and be mindful. What I mean by that is what are you eating? Are they foods that are in general healthy? Are they foods that are right for you? How do you feel after you eat them? Then if you can go on a diet that cuts out gluten, it cuts out dairy, it cuts out soy, and stay on it or you get great results in two months but you often see some results in two weeks. That alone fixes the whole lot of problems so you wouldn’t necessarily need to come to somebody like me, but there’s also to reduce stress sleeping is critical which is challenging because a lot of times when stressed insomnia is a big problem but do what you can, but then the third thing is to be mindful. That’s mindful as many times a day as you can be.
Mindful about what you’re doing, mindful about the choices you’re making [though 00:28:16] understanding why you’re making those choices. Let’s say you’re tired, let’s say you’re reaching for a cookie, not that cookies that are inherently bad, but they’re not always healthy for people but just why do I want a cookie? Am I hungry? Am I maybe just tired and I need a sugar lift? Just be more mindful about it and sometimes you pick a healthier option. Sometimes you pick the cookie, but if you’re mindful about it, it changes how that energy sits in your body and helps you along that path to recovery.
Dr. Clark: There’s nothing wrong with using food as reward and especially if you’re taking a mindful approach. If you’ve gone completely gluten-free, dairy-free, and soy-free and you feel a lot better, chances are that gluten is an issue. You may want to steer away from something gluten-related or dairy-related as a treat. It’s highly individual. This isn’t a problem for everybody and as a whole spectrum. It could be a little problem for somebody and a huge problem for somebody else. If you use food as reward then you just want to be mindful about what it is and how much you have. For instance my plan sounds really restrictive but it actually it isn’t because when you start restricting yourself and saying, “I can’t” then it triggers a whole different thing in your body and you get all these cravings and you don’t do as well, but if you approach it from “I am choosing to go gluten-free, dairy-free, soy-free,” you have a lot better results.
Dr. White: Why soy? I mean that’s [inaudible 00:31:10] and I’m talking personally. Again, I went off a whole lot of stuff but I did not go off the soy. I know that many people say that they are allergies, but what’s in soy that makes [it cell 00:31:23] if anything?
Dr. Clark: Soy is analogous to wheat and that wheat is different than it used to be. When soy first started to be grown like wheat, it wasn’t as problematic for people but people are starting to develop sensitivities to it. In addition, if you eat a lot of it, it’s got what’s called estrogenic effects in your body which means that it behaves as if as estrogen which then creates for their hormone imbalances. [At least in 00:32:03] my clientele, soy hasn’t been nearly as big of a problem as the first two, but it’s something to be aware of. If you’ve gone on an elimination diet and you’re getting pretty good results but you’re not as far as you’d like to be, cutting out soy is something to consider because that might be [inaudible 00:32:21] for you.
Dr. White: I think this is so very, very important to people. What do they need to do to work with their adrenal system and create more of adrenal function versus what you experience and what we’ve been talking about early on with that adrenal dysfunction? How do you know that that’s going on and it seems like when you had it you were really deep into it at the time because it sounds like those symptoms that you were describing are pretty severe. I mean I sometimes take a homeopathic adrenal, something that I put under the tongue, when I’m feeling very fatigued and I know that I’ve been overworking and it seems to help me. I’m not sure that that’s the best approach but it certainly again it’s better for me than taking medication and it’s very short-lived and it’s something that I utilize sparingly.
Dr. Clark: One way to see if perhaps adrenal fatigue is the issue is to take a quiz. There are several online but just to be handy I happened to have one on my website and that’s myvibranthealth.com but there are many different quizzes out there and that’s the initial screening. Might I have adrenal fatigue? Questions on there include things such as how tired you are? What time of day is worse? Are you sleeping? Fat and fatigue are usually the two big symptoms. Really tired and then gaining weight for usually no reason or what feels like no reason and it’s often right around the middle. That doesn’t happen for everybody.
I have some clients who actually lose weight. There are lots and lots of different symptoms of adrenal fatigue. Most people have some degree of adrenal fatigue. If it’s really mild then going on a vacation often fixes the problem, but then there are people like me part of what got me into the situation I had been in is I wasn’t being mindful. I wasn’t listening to my body. I actually had stage three adrenal fatigue, which is the most advanced stage. That’s actually the [rarity 00:34:58] Most people don’t do what I did and jump right the stage three. There’s that stage in the middle when something’s a little off. You don’t have the energy you used too.
You can’t remember things like you used to. You come charging into a room and you cannot remember why you’re there. That can be very scary.
Dr. White: Sorry I was thinking, “Oh, I wonder if that’s going on … “
Dr. Clark: A lot of people talk stuff like that up to aging but for most people it isn’t aging, it’s usually early stages of adrenal fatigue. The earlier you catch adrenal fatigue, the easier it is to rebalance and fix.
Dr. White: You did it without actually taking medication. You did it by that mindfulness and shifting diet and how else did you do that?
Dr. Clark: That is where it starts. Lifestyle changes are where it starts to correct adrenal fatigue because it didn’t just happen. It’s something about what’s going on in your life. The recovery process is all about stress reduction by sleeping more, by being careful about what you eat, by being mindful, by getting rid of as much stress as you can. If you’ve got a very early stage and it’s very mild, that will probably do it for you. You’re done at that point and you get recovered and you move on. If it’s more advanced, if you’re in the stage two or stage three, it often requires a lot more support.
You can recover from adrenal fatigue yourself. If you’re in stage two or three, it takes about three or four years which is a really, really long time but if you get a plan and a program, you can fast track that so that you can be recovered in about six months. If you’re more on the stage three it takes up to 12 months but six months is a lot better than three years. Then on the upside if you’re using a program that’s [tweaked 00:37:10] just for you, you often feel dramatically better in about three or four weeks. Medications don’t really help a whole lot for this. It’s more a lifestyle and supplement approach.
Dr. White: We would have to have you on the show again because there’s so much more to this. You and I were talking before the show Dr. Clark and you were saying that you travel all around the world also to see patients. Give people some indication of how they can reach you and where you’re going to be and what’s next for Dr. Heather Clark and also a little bit about the new book, it’s out, tell us about that.
Dr. Clark: Yes. It’s very easy to get in touch with me. My email address is [email protected] The Burnout Cure is the name of the program that I use to help people recover from adrenal fatigue. I see clients all over the world but often I do it with Skype which is so handy because we can see each other and yet neither one of us has to travel. It usually works out quite well. I have people in America. I’ve got people on Australia. For the time zone thing we can adapt to that. It is accessible. Yes the book is out I’m very excited about that. I’m a co-author in it and it’s titled Getting Well Mind, Body and Spirit. Then the chapter that I wrote is Restoring Your Adrenal Function and Reclaim Your Vitality.
Dr. White: We have about a minute or so. Tell us what vitality means because it’s something we didn’t talk about and that’s really key to good health having that vitality.
Dr. Clark: Vitality is not an absence of disease. Vitality is a driving force in their life. Sometimes people have to think all the way back to when they were a kid to think about the last time they were vital. When you get out of bed and you’re excited about the day and you’re feeling great, lots of energy and I know that you have a lot of listeners that heard that and [inaudible 00:39:41] whatever that’s not for me, but it really can happen for anybody at any age. I have a 64-year-old client who within … gosh hers was just two weeks. She felt dramatically more vital and in two months she’s like, “I felt better than I have ever felt my whole life.” This is possible. Yeah, it’s, “Oh, I love what I do.” This is possible for everybody. Don’t just talk it up to “Well, I’m getting older.” That might not be everything. It could be that you just need a little rebalancing to really reclaim your vitality.
Dr. White: I love that. That’s a good note to end on. Dr. Heather Clark says, “Get a little rebalancing to reclaim your vitality.” I think that’s good. We can use that. I want to thank you because you’ve been a wonderful resource and you cleared up a lot in my mind and hopefully in the minds of our listeners and want people to go to your websites so give them the URL one more time please.
Dr. Clark: theburnoutcure.com.
Dr. White: Great so Dr. Heather Clark, thank you so much for all that you have to offer and for all that you do and for taking the time to be with us today and have a blessed day.
Dr. Clark: Thank you and thank you so much for having me.
Dr. White: My pleasure, bye-bye. Folks everything that we’ve been talking about and that Dr. Heather suggested is so very, very important. Really take a look at her website. Do get this book because it has some valuable information and not just in her wonderful chapter but other people’s chapters as well. Really as we talk about take responsibility for your health, for how you feel, for your vitality, when you do that it’s really very energizing and recharging and allows you to feel more in control. There are many things that we’re not in control of but often times your health is one area that you can actually take charge of.
Next week we’re shifting gears. I’m having Marilyn Tam who wrote The Happiness Choice. She is somebody that you’re going to love to hear about because not only is this book about her story, but she’s interviewed so many celebrities, Joan Borysenko, other people and really finding out what allows them and helps them and has helped them in their life to move ahead and to be happy and contented with where they are and where they’re going. This is Dr. Jo Anne White. You can find me at docwhite.org or drjoannewhite.com. It’s been a pleasure to be here with you today and take time and take charge of you and your health so that you can be all that you can be. Have a blessed day.
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